Vegan Cats?
Mark in Reno recommended Evanger’s Vegetarian canned food, which he adds to Natural Balance Vegetarian for his dogs. And may I just say Violet and Charles LOVE it (I’ve been adding some to their food) and they’re output has decreased. And it has the added bonus of being less expensive than other vegan canned foods and has great ingredients. It’s soy-free, wheat-free and corn-free.
Here’s the thing, though: The can says it’s for dogs and cats, and we all know that dogs and cats have slightly different nutritional needs (which usually manifests most dramatically in male cats, as a result of insufficient taurine and arachidonic acid, the former of which is listed on Evanger’s, but the latter of which isn’t. And cats need more protein.).
Shockingly, Emily the kitty has taken a shine to it and I’ve given her a tad each day. Boy wouldn’t this solve a major issue for vegans if cats could thrive on this food.
But I’m skeptical.
I’m less skeptical of AMI’s non-GMO Vegan Cat Food (kibble), as it was designed for cats, but it’s loaded with corn and corn derivatives (it’s not made in the US, which is why it’s able to be non-GMO).
And the question or today is: Anyone have experience with either of these foods? Forget Evolution, as I’m aware of the controversies with them and my own experience with Violet several years ago didn’t go well. She wouldn’t eat it, and ordinarily she’ll eat anything.
I’m going to continue to give Emily some Evanger’s each day and see how she looks, poops, pees, and all that. She likes it better than her food with meat and licks the plate for like 10 minutes after she’s finished. Having a half-vegan cat (I know, no such thing) is certainly better than nothing. And if this AMI kibble is as good as it’s cracked up to be, I could just have a vegan cat on my hands.
I’m going to order the AMI. She might hate it, and if she does it’s back to 50% vegan. But it’s worth a try, and as I see it it’s my only option as I’d never attempt home cooking for a cat (but that’s me).
Let me know if you have had an Evanger’s or AMI vegan-kitty experience.
Thanks.
As a vet my main concern with feeding cats a 100% vegan diet even if the taurine and protein levels etc are ok, is that when cats metabolise plant derived protein it leads to an alkalotic state in the body. Metabolism of animal protein causes an acidotic state, and this is what cats are designed to have – it helps keep the urine acidic and breaks up any potential crytsals in the urine. I would imagine though that a 50% vegan diet may be fine as long as the cat was monitored for any urinary issues.
I have 2 cats and have had them on a 50% vegan diet without any trouble.
Where've YOU been hiding, Greenie?
Do tell–what food do you use? Any recommendations or foods to stay away from? How do you feel about the Evanger's ingredients? Should I do half-Evanger's or half AMI kibble? We'll be going to the homeopath, ingredients in hand, on Monday. Though she's fine with the dogs as vegans, she might not be happy with this development and may want to supplement her with something or other. I'd love to go to her with another vet's thoughts. The vegan cat thing is new territory for me.
Thanks.
Hi Mary –
Will you have information about vegetarian diets and good food for choices for cats and dogs in your phamphets? That information would be immensely helpful, as I feel completely lost in that area. I want my animals to be healthy and without some guidance, I hesitate to switch their current diets.
Thanks!
The problem w/kibble–any kibble, vegan or not–is that it's not appropriate for cats. They have a really low thirst drive & need to get most of their moisture from food. Kibble does not have nearly enough moisture in it. (nevermind all the carbs, which cats don't need either!)
You can find more info on this at catinfo.org, starting particularly here & scrolling down:
http://catinfo.org/#We_Are_Feeding_Cats_Too_Many_Carbohydrates
I'm curious to see where this conversation goes. We had our cats on 50/50 vegan/non-vegan, and two of them developed urinary issues.
Colleen,
I won't go too much into the vegan cat and dog thing except to mention it, and I will have my blog address on it and an e-mail address, so people can contact me. I don't go into home cooking but on the site for vegans that I mention, I do say you can find vegan cat and dog food there.
Angela,
When I first read of the evils of kibble at the evolution site I was terrified. When I've fed Emily kibble, it has been the grain-free, low-carb, EVO, by Innova. Oh, and she loves to drink water–but only from a scotch glass on the granite countertop! She's such an oddball. The canned I use is Evanger's and now I'm going to do the other 50% Evanger's wet. The AMI kibble is sure to be higher in carbs than EVO, and I can definitely see the potential for dehydration (at best), there. Thanks for reminding me!
Aside from the vegan issue I have had cats feed kibble that lived very long lives without kidney problems or other evidence of dry food problems. Not to say it can't be a problem, but it isn't universal.
Mary–Evo is definitely better for being grain-free, but I still think kibble is problematic enough to avoid it… even if my cats drank cutely from a scotch glass. 🙂 Oh! & I forgot to mention this before–I know on occasion that manufacturers will use the same formula for cat & dog food. They'll put the taurine & other stuff in for cats (b/c apparently taurine isn't an issue or a problem for dogs) & market the same thing for both cats & dogs (but the dog stuff will be cheaper, usually). I know that Nature's Variety does this w/their Instinct brand (non-veg). I see that the Evanger's Vegetarian lists taurine in its ingredients…
Emily–yeah, it's the same argument w/McDonald's/Standard American Diet: there will always be people who live to be 100 on it, but that doesn't mean it's healthy or optimal, y'know?
Eric–were your cats on kibble? I've heard a LOT of stories of cats on kibble (vegan or not) developing urinary problems–it makes me sad that vets so often push stuff like Science Diet as a solution for that, ick! Obviously not all kibble-fed cats develop urinary tract problems, nor do all urinary probs come from kibble-fed cats, but it is a major factor.
I know that the topic of vegan cats is a super contentious one–I appreciate that the conversation here so far has been so calm!
I differ here, folks 🙂 Cats are carnivores. They may be ok with vegan cat food, but they evolved as meat eaters. Same for dogs.
Here's a link to comparative anatomy:
http://www.goveg.com/naturalhumandiet_physiology.asp
Hi Mary I am in Australia and we don't have (to my knowledge) the vegan pet foods you mention. The food I have used is called Veganpet and comes in a dry kibble for cats. The food was put under the same testing procedures as commercial pet foods through a University here in Aus where extensive feeding trials were done. It meets the AFFAC (Association of American Feed Control Officials) standards and from what I read in the study actually has higher protein content than many commercial foods.
Has the Evangers food passed any feeding trials to monitor how much protein the cat would actually get? I would check this out. Cats have a very high protein requirement because of their unique metabolism where they cannot retain amino acid nitrogen in their tissues thus they need more protein in their diet to compensate.
I see another poster had urinary issues feeding a 50:50 diet which is why I urge people to be vigilant in monitoring their cats! Remember also though that cat are really prone to urinary problems and get them even on all meat diets.
Another issue which has been raised is the dry kibble issue – I would agree that cats have not evolved to eat dry food, as desert animals they are designed to get a lot of moisture from eating prey rather than drinking water. I have not however found a vegan wet food here in Australia which meets nutritional requirements for cats.
Evanger's does have taurine, but I'm skeptical because it's for dogs AND cats, so it's probably not really appropriate for one or the other (my guess is cats). In addition, Emily has altogether lost interest in it so I'm back to square one. Though Emily has FIP, not counting last week's episode of day-long vomiting, 4 days in a row, she hasn't been ill since we adopted her nearly 7 years ago. Not once. And the kitty before her whom I had for 17 years–same thing. How would I know if she had a urinary tract problem?
Urinary tract problem signs are things like passing urine slowly and painfully, passing urine more more frequently than normal, not passing urine at all (emergency!), blood in the urine, licking at the penis or vulva and being restless and vocalising. There can also be some non specific signs like depression, lethargy, etc.
I am pretty careful with my cats' diets which is why I wouldn't ever feed them 100% vegan. I just don't think enough research has looked at outcomes of cats on a vegan diet.
Good luck with your kitties, I know the frustrations and I would love it if I could feed my cats 100% vegan. I just don't think though that at this stage there have really been enough studies done to show potential problems/outcomes of a vegan diet for cats. I am not willing to risk my cats health by using them as test subjects!
Yeah, this is all way-too sketchy for me. I'm lucky Emily's alive right now. I might, however, write a letter to the Evanger's people or call them. They have a great reputation and it certainly seems they might want to rethink saying the veg food is okay for cats.
As for physiology, just because it's natural doesn't mean it's what's best for health and longevity. Dogs and cats aren't supposed to be living inside and for 15 years, either. The research I've seen supports that vegan dogs have fewer health problems, particularly later in life (and after 5 years of being vegan) than meat-eating dogs. However, I've seen no such research on cats. I guess the difference between obligate carnivores and secondary carnivores is that you really can't mess with the former.
I think we all feed our dogs and cats what we think is best for them. And it may well be that vegan dogs live longer, but I haven't seen any conclusive studies.
For example, the study below tested 300 dogs, and showed a positive correlation between dog health and a plant food diet. It also showed benefit according to the length of time on a vegetarian or vegan diet.
The problem is, although the study notes most dogs were mixed or terriers, with some yorkies, akitas, dobermans, retrievers, beagles, it doesn't distinguish the dog's weight, size, bone structure, etc., in relation to their health or disease. There's also no comparison with meat eating dogs, though I think it would very hard to match them in weight, size, age, etc.
These are very significant factors–so I think this particular study is incomplete.
http://www.helpinganimals.com/pdfs/Dog_Health_Survey.pdf
I don't know about other studies.
Angela,
When you comment, would you be kind enough to provide a valid e-mail address? On this blog, I ask two things: for civil discourse and for a valid e-mail address.
Thanks for reading and writing!
Ellie,
Here's my problem with talking about physiology. Humans can live healthy, long lives as omnivores, yet our physiology says we're herbivores.
I'm not a vegan because of my physiology. I'm a vegan because of my ethics + I can do so and be healthy. Same with my dogs. Not the same for my cat, as the "because she can do so and be healthy" part of the equation seems to be missing, or at best tenuous.
I say as long as my dogs bloodwork and exams continue to show that they are thriving, and Violet's diabetes continues to be under control (it has improved since switching to a vegan diet, as has her arthritis), I'll stick with vegan. However, I'm perfectly willing to go back to meat if one or both of my dogs present signs that their needs aren't being met. I think the most important thing is that we are open to doing whatever is best for an individual, even if that involves meat. If we're going to continue to adopt cats and dogs, we have to accept that our vegan values will indeed be compromised (in the form of purchasing non-vegan items).
I am just not convinced by the 'dry food is bad' argument. I see no evidence that cats 'have a low thirst drive'. I do see that they are often given water in a way that doesn't match their ethology of drinking. If there is any kind of peer-reviewed data I would certainly look at it but otherwise it comes down to anecdote and conflicts of 'common sense' between people who see the same events differently.
I agree, Mary, the most important thing is to be open to individual needs.
I've had my cat Kismet on Ami kibble for quite some time now, and he loves it. He is very healthy with considerable energy, a beautiful coat, clean teeth, etc. So I personally have not seen any adverse health effects with Ami even though Kismet has been eating it for over a year. I had the same experience, unfortunately, with Evolution — Kismet would not touch it. Ami seems to be a "miracle" vegan cat food — nutritionally balanced and also delectable to the cats themselves.
Hi Mary,
I live with three vegan cats and all of the eat AMI cat food, I also know LOTS of vegan cats who eat AMI and they are doing well. You can see a photo gallery of them at: http://www.igualdadanimal.org/tienda
Bye!
Wow, how 'bout that AMI? Maybe I'll buy some and do that 50/50 thing after all. If you recall, my vet actually suggested it and I was shocked. Emily has been eating ZiwiPeak canned venison: http://www.ziwipeak.com/Products/Ingredients/Venison/ pasture-fed then slaughtered. Nice. I'd be thrilled if she'd eat some vegan morsels . . .
Are there any Vets out there that can recommend what to feed my cats. Reading articles such as
http://www.nowpublic.com/commercial-dog-food-contains-dead-pets-0 which talks about recyling euthanized dogs and cats into our pet foods. Should I just cook them some meat food up myself?
Jennifer,
I think the key word there is "commercial." Yes, commercial cat food will use 4D meat. I'd recommend going to the health food store and checking out Ziwipeak, Natural Balance, Wellness, Innova and look at the ingredients. You should know what each animal ingredient is. Here's a good primer on ingredients, though some might disagree about how much meat, if any, "pet" can thrive on: http://www.api4animals.org/facts.php?p=359&more=1 .
As for cooking some meat, when I home-prepared for my kitty, I didn't cook the meat–there's no need to. I just gave her chunks of steak or chicken breast or turkey breast. The Honest Kitchen has Prowl, which is dehydrated raw: http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/products/prowl.shtml . Here are the ingredients: Hormone-free chicken, eggs, potatoes, yams, flaxseed, zucchini, spinach, honey, cranberries, rosemary, vitamins and minerals.
Not good of course from a vegan standpoint, but the cat sure loves it.
Jennifer,
Here's something I once wrote with regards to feeding a dog or cat a vegan diet:
http://www.animalsuffering.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3660&start=75
(scroll down the page to davedrum)…
I hope this helps,
-David