The Weight Question
Yesterday, I cheekily commented that Mississippi is the Most Obese State therefore there probably aren't a lot of vegans there. And I bet that's true (compared to Portland, and the actual topic was support for vegans, and I'd bet my net worth that Portland beats Jackson, Mississippi). I have no problem with anyone going vegan (with the help of some good books or other guidance) to lose weight. Will that lead to an animal rights position for them? Who knows? Maybe. Maybe not. I suppose it depends on the information they're exposed to.
meerkat has commented several times, saying that she is "fat," and that vegan doesn't equal thin. And I don't think it does, necessarily. But generally speaking, vegans are leaner than non-vegans. Exceptions abound, I'm sure. Like meerkat.
Here's my question: What is your experience?
My husband constantly says that the worst thing about going vegan is that he's "disappearing." He is six-feet tall and is 170 pounds, which, for him, is thin. He's lost over 20 pounds since going vegan over a year ago. And it doesn't help that people around him comment about how "skinny" he is.
Meanwhile, I'm 5'1" and 108 pounds, which is the same weight as when I graduated high school nearly 25 years ago. I have been vegan, vegetarian and omnivore, and I remain about 108 pounds, which is perfectly normal for my height. Heck, I even had an eating disorder (bulimia) and stayed the same weight (which isn't that uncommon, by the way). The only time I was thinner, by about five pounds, was when I ate raw food only. (If anyone tells you veganism is difficult, tell them to try raw food. It ironically calls for a lot of preparation, if you're going the gourmet way). Then there was the time I went to Haiti and came back minus 10 pounds, but that was because I kept giving my food away.
I have always exercised regularly (at least 5-days a week, probably an hour a day), which I'm sure has contributed to my fitness level. (And that hour a day doesn't buy me the same fitness level it did 10 years ago. I have to work much harder now to stay fit. I'm working against my genetics–and time.)
In my mind, there's what you eat, there's your activity level, and there's your genetics. I don't know what the ratio is and I don't think it's the same for everyone. I have a friend who calls herself a "fat skinny person." She's naturally very, very thin, eats junk food all day, and doesn't exercise. Her entire family is very thin no matter what they do. Genetics rule their weight.
There are always odd stories and exceptions to general rules, but I must say I haven't seen a study that says vegans are not, generally speaking, thinner than omnivores and vegetarians. ("[N]on-meat-eaters are on average significantly thinner than meat-eaters," says the New England Journal of Medicine. "Vegetarian populations tend to be slimmer than meat-eaters, and they experience lower rates of heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, and other life-threatening conditions linked to overweight and obesity . . . . Rates of obesity in the general population are skyrocketing, while in vegetarians, obesity prevalence ranges from 0 percent to 6 percent . . . . a low-fat vegan diet leads to weight loss of about 1 pound per week, even without additional exercise or limits on portion sizes, calories, or carbohydrates," according to a couple of studies mention in a PCRM press release.) Again, this doesn't mean that every person who eschews animal products will necessarily lose weight, or that people who are "fat" eat animals.
What's your story?
6 feet, 150 pounds.
From an avid omnivore to vegan: I have always been athletic, from baseball and snowboarding in highschool, to rock climbing, wake boarding and snowboarding today. (I also live in Washington, D.C., therefore, I walk – everywhere.) I've noticed two things: 1) My weight has been consistent; however, my energy has increased since going vegan three years ago. And 2) my metabolism seems to have increased since going vegan because, while I am still very active, I am not as active as I was previously, however, my caloric intake is very similar; thus, my consistent weight seems to suggest that my metabolism may be compensating. This is all anecdotal of course. I can state with some confidence that omnivore or vegan, the substance is in the details: What are you eating (e.g., empty calories?)? Are you active? To you take an interest in health? The end result is a product of these little actions along the way – not diet alone.
My weight has remained consistent since going vegan. I was an incredibly skinny omnivore, and even though I don't really have to worry about losing weight as a vegan, I have found it extremely difficult to gain any.
I was quite thin all through childhood. In high school I shared my name with another student, so I was known to most as "the skinny one." By the end of puberty I weighed a scant 130 lbs at 6'1". When I went vegan (20) I lost a few pounds more–probably a combination of mucus, water, and excess bodyfat (skinny-fatness is a strange phenomenon)–and opposite to your experience, it wasn't until I went raw that I began to gain real weight and keep it on. Much of that has to do with the energy I feel when eating this way: I can't help but work out, which causes my appetite to be much greater than before. Still 6'1", but now weigh about 160 with the most muscle and least fat I've had in my life (now 23), and I do it all on fruits and vegetables. Going vegan put hair on my chest, I love to say.
Your husband might want to spend a little time with a nutritionist and figure out how to tweak his diet a little. He might simply need more calories, or he might need to get more protein and fat–for example by eating more nuts, more protein shakes, and so on.
I've certainly gained weight since leaving NYC, because I don't walk as much or do as many stairs every single day. Even going to the gym doesn't make up for it. However, I think that if I weren't vegan, considering how much I love to cook and eat, that I'd probably be severely obese. I could lose some weight if I really tried, and I might sometime soon, but I really do just love eating and making food so much. Of course, my weight seems high to most people compared to how I appear, since I lift weights and muscle weighs more than fat. I hate to admit to my actual weight since it tends to make jaws drop and people insist that I cannot really weight that much…
However it's totally possible to be a junk food vegan, and even people who eat healthy foods might take in too many calories for their activity level. Many people, myself included, are very poor judges of what we eat unless we actually measure. Studies have shown people severely under-estimate portion sizes for example. For a while my mother was trying to cook some healthy foods, and if Sean and I went over it was really terrible. She'd serve vegetables and salads and they'd be honestly drowned in oil–that tasted normal to her omnivore taste buds, but we nearly gagged on it. So she would always say she had so much difficulty losing weight and that she ate "healthy" all the time, but my experience was that she added tons of fats to even healthy foods. Of course I'm not immune, I love my fried tofu.
Neva,
My husband's issue has been one of stress (he's a financial planner) and business (he travels a lot). He's one of those people who forgets to eat, which boggles my mind. I eat all day long and have yet to "forget." And he won't just grab some junk like he used to. When he's stressed he's not only less likely to eat but more likely to go running. And he quit drinking (that wine can add up). He has the perfect storm of factors that keep him thin now and will just have to try harder and change some habits.
An omnivore recently made asparagus for me and I didn't recognize it because it was sort of brownish green and floating in oil. He figured as long as it's a vegetable, that's all that matters.
Love that fried tofu.
I am overweight. My husband is overweight. We're both vegan. We didn't lose any weight going vegan. (Didn't gain any either, though.)
However, my husband lost a lot of weight when he went vegetarian. He used to be obese. But it wasn't just vegetarianism that changed him. He also reduced his caloric intake.
The only times I lose weight, and he's the same, is when we consciously try to lose weight and we cut calories. Both of us come from heavy stock and both of us indulge in luxury foods quite often (sugar, fat, alcohol, coffee).
I have virtually no problem maintaining my weight. I don't gain weight unless I'm depressed. But I think if I were omni I'd be much larger.
I know plenty of fat vegans, but sadly, they're not as likely to raise their hands and say, "Hey, I'm a fat vegan." Many are embarrassed they don't fit the skinny vegan mold.
I know I could and should eat more healthfully and I know I should exercise more, but that doesn't really have anything to do with being vegan, you know?
Hi Mary,
There are unfortunately dietary vegans who follow the meatless diet but don't want the politics.
I am very overweight, having been a junk food vegetarian and vegan for many years: as a vegetarian for ~17 years and eating a lot of heavy foods like pasta but only as an adult really getting into the junk food; then as a vegan still eating processed and heavy products.
Due to my weight people were quite shocked that I was vegetarian, due to the skinny stereotype.
I now follow a primarily 'raw' lifestyle, eliminating all processed foods and eating simply – although still enjoying vegan takeout or similar once in a while – and I'm losing weight. I could lose the weight eating a cooked vegan diet, but my choice simply comes down to the fact I feel better eating mainly raw foods. I agree with you about the preparation of gourmet raw dishes though!
I'm very passionate about animal rights and advocacy, both which informed my decision to become vegetarian as a 10 year old. I think it was just denial as to why I didn't go vegan sooner.
My husband on the other hand was a quite skinny vegetarian, but since going vegan he's now at a more natural weight, has more energy, and looks very healthy.
Mary: Is your husband's weight loss due to loss of muscle or loss of body fat? Muscle mass is easily maintained by regular exercise, preferably weightlifting. If he wants more body fat he should simply add more calories, no? The best is probably a combination of both good exercise and increased calorie intake.
About me (In SI units):
1.75 m tall
Omni-me: 75-80 kg, struggling to keep my weight down.
Vegetarian-me: Around 75 kg. I went vegetarian to lose weight, and it seemed to work, but I also increased my exercise which might as well explain the improvement.
Vegan me: 72-75 kg, it's easier to keep my weight, but I still need to watch what I eat and exercise regularly.
I can confirm that stress will affect your weight. During periods of high stress I have been down below 70 kg, even though I exercised less and ate more. This has happened both as a vegetarian and as a vegan.
I don't believe that being or becoming vegan should ever be looked at as a weight loss plan. I know that for the most part I have remained constant with regards to my weight since I became vegan. What makes my own weight fluctuate depends on the amount of hiking/running I'm doing at any point in my life. I find that has much more to do with my weight going up, down , or remaining constant than by just eating the way I do. When I first became a veggie, I ate all the wrong things and put on weight faster than at any other point in my life. I ate nothing but pasta, pizza, bagels, etc. That and all of the fake "meats" sold in regular super markets. Once I learned to eat properly and stared running again, the weight came right off. Since becoming vegan I've put on on taken off 10 lbs in either direction, but I think it all has/had to do with the amount of exercise I've been doing at any given time compared to what or how much I've been eating. I've always looked at being vegan as my life and lifestyle and it's never been a "diet" by any means to me. I just enjoy the health benefits as a great and welcome added bonus to this lifestyle I choose to live. Well as least it's been maximally conducive to me so far!
One thing I'd like to bring up (and that I don't believe has ever been discussed here), is a step in the *other" direction with regards to weight and a vegan "diet" used to control it. About 2 years ago I started to take part in a recipe forum and after a while I noticed that many many users of the forum were people with ED's (eating disorders). It had never entered my mind that so many would turn to veganism as a way to mask their ED. I'd put the number of users on that forum (and a few others) that have ED's as high as 50%…and that would be a pretty conservative number. They are not vegan because of AR or the environment, etc. Though those topics do come up, tha majority or obsessed with food. They write about food, talk about it, take pictures of all they cook or bake, and post them on the sites and their own blogs… Obviously when one has an ED, food and diet are the driving forces in their life.
What happens is that many of these ED "vegans" get sick and even when they just go in for regular health check ups… or to ANY type of physician that is not familiar with a proper vegan lifestyle/diet they start labeling ALL vegans and our vegan lifestyle as unhealthy. I'm sure there are many of you that like myself found that once we became vegan we've very rarely become ill. That our bodies and immune systems are in the best shape they've even been in. I never go to the doctor because I have no need to at this point in my life, so I feel that the majority of vegan paitiants that many doctors treat are sick from an underlying cause that has nothing to do with a vegan diet… but more about an ED that they mask by labeling themselves as vegan. Curious if any others here have seen or noticed that before…
Davedrum,
I do know that when I first went veg as a teenager, my therapist (and my mother, who is a therapist) immediately thought I had an eating disorder (I didn't). They are in fact trained to look for changes in eating, and vegetarianism/veganism in particular, as signs of potential depression and/or eating disorder. This was in the mid 1980s, and I don't know whether it's different today, but (and I guess this depends on the school of therapy), there was no room for moral evolution as a reason for "restricting" your "diet" (that's how it's seen/diagnosed). They actually thought vegetarianism caused or masked a psychological problem.
I did see an article from 2001 that says that eating disorders are as prevalent among vegans and vegetarians as omnivores (http://www.tracieokeefe.com/eatdisorderveg.htm), and I'd believe that as eating disorders often have nothing to do with food (they're about control, as you allude to). And if you have the combo grande of factors that might lead to, say, bulimia, vegan or not doesn't matter (factors, by the way, include low self-esteem, perfectionism, propensity to addiction or at least OCD, being an adult child of an alcoholic, and perhaps a traumatic event as a trigger). It's the obsession with controlling something when everything else feels out of control that manifests as the eating disorder.
I could see how veganism might be used by anorexics because they're comforted when they get to disallow foods. They "can't" eat meat or eggs or cheese–they're "not allowed," which helps them stay on track and be disciplined. Of course, that kind of mentality won't create an animal rights advocate.
Finally, I'm sure all of the people talking about veganism as a weight loss technique aren't helping those on their way to an eating disorder and looking for the magic bullet of control. And they're also not helping veganism. I didn't think about that until you mentioned it. Thanks.
I went vegan over 5 years ago and didn’t have any weight issues with it. I’ve been 5’ 9 and about 163 lbs for about 20 years now (plus or minus 5 lbs depending on how much running, hiking, climbing, skiing I’m doing), and going vegan didn’t change that. My running and lifting have remained fairly consistent, and so have my body weight, fat, and muscle mass.
The only big exception was about 4 years ago, at the peak of training for the Breckenridge Crest Mountain Marathon (a challenging mountain trail run of over 25 miles, 5,500 feet elevation gain, at elevations between 9,600 and 12,500 feet), I dropped down to around 153 lbs, but I was running about 60 miles per week instead of my usual 15 to 30 miles per week.
As a vegan, I have noticed my recovery times from long runs and long days in the mountains have been cut by a lot – seems like about half. Where I used to be stiff or sore the next day or two as an omnivore, I don’t have the stiffness or soreness in my muscles from long and hard workouts as a vegan and can return to a hard workout quicker than before. Scott Jurek, a vegan who has dominated the ultra-marathon scene over the past several years, also attributes quicker recovery times to being vegan. My guess is that vegans don’t have as much lactic acid build-up in their system as non-vegans because we don’t consume dairy products.
Dan,
Two things happened when I quit dairy: my skin, prone to adult acne, cleared up (not completely, but a lot) and my endurance increased. I have a lot of energy, too. Dairy made me sluggish.
Then there was all that mucous . . . ewwww.
Mary,
I just wanted to add to your last comment with regards to "skin"…
I have to say that when I was still eating dairy as a "veggie".. I too had problems…not with regards to acne…but more with allergic reactions and hives breaking out… I "itched" all over the ^%&(@&$&$@##*% place! It did take me a while to realize that once I became vegan… all of those problems vanished…it became clear to me that they were due to my dairy consumption at the time. Since I became vegan…I've never ever had one single "break out" due to anything I've consumed. The only time I get the "itchy's" is when allergy season kicks in…(or when I get "stung" by something)…as all things that sting and suck blood seem to be affectionate for me! Even my own allergies have "morphed" since I became vegan…i still have problems with them from time to time..but not nearly as bad as before I went vegan. I think it has more to do with moving around so many times in my adult life… and be subjected to things that are new to my system more than you could say it is diet related.
Looking back these days…I CLEARLY recall times I ingested dairy… and the effects dairy had on my body as being both the "cause and root" of the problems I had…
davedrum,
The best was going to the dermatologist, saying that when I eat pizza I get a breakout within 48 hours, and him saying: food is completely unrelated to acne. That's a myth.
Myth?! HA! Why not call it what it is?… An absolute lie! I know what my "own" body taught me… I really really saw the difference within a few short weeks of my becoming vegan. That skin related issues went away. That after a few weeks and months into eating a "vegan" diet…but more important… over the "years" of living vegan (with how I treated the land I lived on as well)… that many issues that haunted me in the past seem to just "vanish" into thin air.
Tell that to any "omni"… and they'll chalk it up to something else…
Yet I saw and felt the very things that made my body and mind feel different… It was getting rid of all the "crap" in my environment… both internal and external… from what I ingested, to what I used in my bathing/showering/and on my property I walked on everyday…
I saw the very same things happen for all of my rescue dogs… (yet that's another topic)…
Come to think of it, I used to get a pmiple on my face as an adult a few times a year, sometimes large, but I can't remember the last time I had one – probably because they stopped when I went vegan.
Another nice thing about being vegan is that on the occasion that I eat too much (because the food is so good), I don't get the painful, long lasting gut-rock that meat and cheese produced. I may be uncomfortably full for 30 to 60 minutes, but it goes away pretty quickly and isn't severe. Vegan food digests much easier than flesh and bodily fluids.
Yes Dan….that's a conversation I've had with my "favorite" vegan… no matter how full… I "always" feel…CLEAN!
Now I feel all important, being quoted in a post.
There does seem to be a correlation between veg*n diets and less obesity, but as they say, correlation is not causation. This may tie in to the perception of veg*nism as a white, middle/upper-class thing, because (I read somewhere that) white rich people are statistically thinner. Also, sometimes health conditions can cause people to be fatter than they would otherwise be, and veg*nism could have a positive effect on these, I don't really know. However, if a vegan diet makes a naturally fat person thin, I would suspect they are doing it wrong, i.e. starving themselves. But metabolism is complex and varied so there may well be exceptions.
Re: raw food, I met some raw foodists at the Kyoto Vegetarian Festival last week, and they said they lost 20 and 30 kg respectively. This has seriously damaged my opinion of the raw foods diet as healthful. The chocolate they were selling was good though. And other people report more moderate results. It's not much of an issue for me anyway, because I don't have time to acquire and prepare fresh fruits and veggies every day.
Incidentally, veganism has not cleared my skin either.
meerkat,
I have to say…that in a way…I "hate" that a "raw food DIET" is tied into veganism. Eating Raw has "nothing" to do with being vegan. To me…vegan is the "life we choose" as opposed to what one chooses to just eat. A "raw diet"..is just that…a diet…or…how one chooses to feed themselves…being VEGAN, is a lifestyle. It's almost the same as to what the so called "Abolitionists" do… in "theory" use a "vegan diet" to justify their won means…yet being a true "vegan" means that one lives a "lifestyle"…and HOW they choose to feed themselves is just "part" of it. Vegan does not mean "diet"…eating a "raw diet"…well it's just that to me…a diet.
Not to gross anyone out, but for clarification, not all people who eat raw food are vegan. I should've mentioned that. Some eat raw milk and animal flesh (and not just from the sea).
"Some eat raw milk and animal flesh (and not just from the sea)."
Oh my… That's digusting. I'm definately grossed. (Please insert barf smiley here).
I've been meaning to chime in here, though I'm a bit late to the party.
I did lose weight when I went vegan, but it was imo because I went from eating a highly processed vegetarian diet to suddenly cooking real food, focused on whole grains and veg. Less sugary crap. And I started running around the same time (coincidence). The weight loss was pretty small, but it stuck.
My weight has been generally pretty steady, within 5 lbs I think. Though I don't keep close track of it, so I'm not really sure.
Now that I'm bike commuting, I have people always telling me that I've lost weight, which is bull. People just expect that riding 30 miles a day, I'll lose weight. But I'm eating a lot more, because I'm hungry a lot more. No weight loss, not that I was trying to lose weight. I might have even gained weight, I know I have gained a lot of muscle, especially considering how out of shape I was!
So anyway, I think that while it is fully possible to be a junk food vegan, it is easier to eat healthy as a vegan than otherwise. At least that is how it worked for me. I can tell when I eat something too sugary or too white floury, because I start craving it, independent of whether I feel full. It is like no amount of those types of food can satisfy me.
Maybe it isn't easier to eat healthy and whole foody on a vegan diet, maybe that's just what I did, in my exuberance over learning about millet and quinoa and all the fun stuff that most of us ignored before going vegan.